low ambient temperature - no boot ( bug or future )

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rudi ;-)
Posts: 1517
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:25 pm

low ambient temperature - no boot ( bug or future )

Postby rudi ;-) » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:30 pm

hi espressif,
@john lee
@beta team

had start problem here in my winter home, because my outdoor room has +13..+18 °Celsius room temperature.

http://esp32.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22&start=10#p208

i think, we have a nice [edit with this onboard temperature sensor] ( efuses) future, or unlucky bug/ board ( C1, C2, OSC ) .

can you please check this:

Description:

[edit picture insert]
( Click on Picture to the Video on Youtube)

quest_low_ambient_temperature.JPG
quest_low_ambient_temperature.JPG (54.58 KiB) Viewed 7086 times
[/url]

wireing:
GND, 3.3
Pullup ( 10KOhm ) EN with Pusher Contact to GND ( Switch off/on )
GPIO0 high ( App Mode boot )
GPIO05 pullup ( 10KOhm)
U0TXD pullup ( 10KOhm )

U0TXD -> USB TTL Rx
U0RXD -> USB TTL Tx
USB TTL -> Terminal

Firmware: First Start Standard ( can't go on first moments, then began to search )
Video/Description: User Firmware, only add Hello World Message

EDIT: "esp_init_data_default.bin"
No change / update / flashing new *****esp_init_data_default.bin*****

Room/Place Temperature is +13..+16 °Celsius
Board do not boot.
Hot Air Pump /Blow warm Air to the Place, Step by Step Kelvin +1
at +20..+23 °Celsius the Board boot

Hot Air Pump/Blow cold Air to the Place/Step by Step Kelvin -1
at 21..20° Celsius the Board can not boot again by push the button, go down ( see the last Message \0 ...) there are Infos for this?

Board will not boot again with this Celsius ( 20°C ...18°C )

Again Kelvin +1 step by step, note, i had push the button,
this remind the board? and when the minimum temperature has been reached, this boot automatically.

see all in video,

the video is not listed in you tube,
only here posting for share with beta tester and espressif team.
( espressif you can go outside this forum with this video )

https://youtu.be/C7cG2LVs0m8

[edit]
or this link ( same video ) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7cG2LVs0m8


sry again for bad english.

Have we nice Future [edit with this onboard temperature sensor] or unlucky bug / board?
If Future, get we a info how this can be setting down :)
because i am really be outdoor with testings :mrgreen:
( fun )

best wishes
rudi ;-)
( let me know, email, pm or here )

btw: found my problem, the hot air is just in time fixed allways at this "+ 27°C" place :D
have "fixed" the bug / future [edit with a hot air ] :mrgreen:

guys!
Please do not laugh at my bad English pronunciation. this is my first video with language. Moreover, in a strange. :oops: :oops:
That cost me a lot to overcome. :mrgreen:
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rainman
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:50 pm

Re: low ambient temperature - no boot ( bug or future )

Postby rainman » Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:27 pm

Hi Rudy,


Nice finding ! I can confirm that our board is also affected by the same issue. If used with our normal ambient temperature (something like 19-20 Celsius) the it doesn't start most of the time. The heat of my hand, place closed to the board, is enough to make it start.


I think it is probably related to some tollerances of the oscillator components (quartz, capacitors) that leads to some instability but would be good to get a feedback from espressif.

Thanks

DarkByte
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:00 pm

Re: low ambient temperature - no boot ( bug or future )

Postby DarkByte » Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:20 pm

I think it is probably related to some tollerances of the oscillator components (quartz, capacitors) that leads to some instability but would be good to get a feedback from espressif.
Seems pretty stable "bug" and affected only at boot time. While chip work, outside temperature -20 degrees of Celsius is not a problem. But if set it to deep sleep mode for 10 seconds it will not boot up before heating to +15 degrees (by internal temperature sensor). Maybe that is because of self heating, do not know.

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rudi ;-)
Posts: 1517
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:25 pm

Re: low ambient temperature - no boot ( bug or future )

Postby rudi ;-) » Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:14 am

DarkByte wrote:
I think it is probably related to some tollerances of the oscillator components (quartz, capacitors) that leads to some instability but would be good to get a feedback from espressif.
Seems pretty stable "bug" and affected only at boot time. While chip work, outside temperature -20 degrees of Celsius is not a problem. But if set it to deep sleep mode for 10 seconds it will not boot up before heating to +15 degrees (by internal temperature sensor). Maybe that is because of self heating, do not know.
hi
yes you are right!
thanks for this reply, DarkByte.
i confirm same. only at boot time.
if chip is boot up then, the ambient can go down.
if deep sleep mode then do not boot.

please try this too:
"normaly" ( bug normaly ) the boot process start is ..+15..+20
if you are outside ;-) -20 °C
and deep sleep mode is activate
dip your finger (wake up on hardware wired pin 48 ) over the rst capacitator and "tata" the "wake up" function will boot normaly the beta chip in -20 °C :mrgreen:

other test:
send uart messages by timer ( blinky 1 s )
and let ambient fall down ..
on a moment , the beta chip sends many 0x00 and go "deep sleep", "self heating" , "stable bug" or other possible named mode..

i do not know, looks like a "stable bug" esp_greg posted here for a possible replacement, so i think this is not normal and a bug:
http://esp32.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61&p=409#p409

best wishes
rudi ;-)

@rainman thanks for reply!

@esp_greg
btw, have we won the USD 1000 :mrgreen:
please spend/give it to the espressif "kernel" team and organice / make a fun chin. new year party.
[edit] [fun!] and shoot dance , jump dance, table dance and other picture of the party and post here :mrgreen: [/fun!] [/ edit]
happy greetings! :D
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rudi ;-)
Posts: 1517
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:25 pm

Re: low ambient temperature - no boot ( bug or future )

Postby rudi ;-) » Sat Jul 02, 2016 3:15 pm

johnlee wrote:

The reason for this is a design change in ESP31B in the crystal oscillator to radically reduce the power consumption (during sleep), and add more tuning range to the crystal oscillator. This resulted in the crystal being sensitive to the type and brand of crystal used and somehow even the design of the board matters as well.

For this reason we did not manage to catch this bug in our first round of test because we were using internal test boards at even -40°C, which did not have this problem. Fortunately our beta testers (thanks Rudi) found this bug and reported this to us, and we manage to replicate this bug both with a beta board and in simulations.

The bug will be resolved in ESP32 with ample margins. For the time being, if you have a problem, you might consider changing the crystal, but it's a delicate operation. So far we only found 1 brand of crystal with this problem, but we haven't tried many brands either.

We thank our beta testers for the feedback.

src of the statement

thank you for the feedback


best wishes
rudi ;-)
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User avatar
rudi ;-)
Posts: 1517
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:25 pm

Re: low ambient temperature - no boot ( bug or future )

Postby rudi ;-) » Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:17 pm

i remember me, there was only this version of modul -
but why i get this with this temper bug :mrgreen:
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